03.12.10
Posted in Soundproofing, Sound Quality Improvement/ Echo reduction, Schools / Classrooms, Office Acoustics at 11:55 am by Ted W
We have a new training room that has the following dimensions: 8’ High, 40’ Long, & 18’ Wide. The walls are dry wall, the ceiling has the typical tiles, and the floor is concrete covered by thin vinyl tiles. Also, one 40’ long wall has a white board all the way across it. The echoes are quite awful in this room. What would you recommend doing to reduce the noise?
K.W.
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K.W.
Thank you for the E-mail. Taking care of the echo in the room is actually quite simple but there are a few options. Before I get too far along, if you would like to see samples or get literature for any of the products I will mention below, please feel free to let me know and I will get them on the way as soon as I can. Also, if this gets to be confusing or if you have questions, don’t hesitate to call or send me an E-mail.
Although there really isn’t a cut and dry way to treat every room, I have come up with a simple equation that I have been very successful with for reducing the echo to a reasonable and acceptable degree. This isn’t a guarantee or anything, but it is a simple answer to at least give people an idea of how many panels they will need for their rooms.
Cubic Volume x 4% = square footage of panels installed.
So:
40’ x 18’ x 8’ = 5,760
5760 x .04 = 230.4
This room needs approximately 230 square feet of paneling.
One nice thing about acoustics and fixing echo problems is the fact that the exact location of the acoustical material is not critical and, for all practical purposes, it can be installed anywhere in the room and have about the same performance. So, the panels do not HAVE to be installed on the walls a certain distance off of the floor to be effective. Let’s say that you had two identical training rooms and you put 230 square feet of paneling on the walls of “Room A” and the same 230 square feet on the ceiling of “Room B”, if you or I were in either (with our eyes closed) we would not likely be able to tell which room we were in. This leaves a lot of freedom for the end user to put the panels in whatever location they want. Most people end up installing the panels on the ceiling because they are the most inconspicuous and the most out of the way – along with the fact that they can get a very even coverage throughout the room while not taking away much from the aesthetics of functionality of the room – but the walls are just as efficient. With this said, I would suggest spacing the panels out rather than installing them one next to the other. This will increase the overall surface area of absorption and give you a bit more absorption per panel because the sound can hit the edges of the panels as well as the surface.
As far as what products to use, there are a few likely options. Each of these will have it’s own advantages and disadvantages. Choosing which is best for the room is ultimately going to be up to you – and is usually decided by two factors – the budget for the project and the necessary aesthetic of the room.
Echo Eliminator Panels:
This is going to be the most cost effective panel of the lot. This is a board made from recycled cotton and has a surface appearance like felt – a soft, fuzzy texture. It is in stock in ten different colors and is sold in 2×4 panels. The most common “issue” or “complaint” is that it is not “finished looking” enough for the room. That is understandable as the aesthetic of the panel is not why it is suggested – it is the value. This product is just as absorbent as any but is usually about 1/3 the cost.
Fabric Wrapped Fiberglass panels:
This is one of two of the most decorative and finished looking panels that we offer. This is a pre-fabricated panel that is made by cutting a piece of fiberglass down to size, treating the edge with one of four profiles and wrapping it with a decorative fabric. They can be made into any size up to a 4’x10’ board and there are LOTS of fabrics to choose from. Because they are pre-fabricated and hand made, they are going to be the most costly option as well as the most expensive to ship. But, when the panels get to the site, they are the faster and easier to install than the product below. The cost for this option depends on fabric, panel size, and shipping needs to be quoted with size and quantity)
WallMate Stretch-Wall System:
This product is a site-fabricated high tension fabric system. We provide the pieces and parts and the panels are built on site. I usually use the analogy of a “canvas painting” to explain how this works. The WallMate system uses the light, non-rigid cotton as the acoustical core and rather than wrapping the cotton panels themselves, a track, or frame is installed on the wall- similar to a wood stretcher for a painting. The fabric is wrapped around the frame, not touching the cotton. These pieces can be shipped via ups and is usually about the middle of the road (between the un-faced cotton panels) and the fabric wrapped fiberglass panels above – but it does depend significantly on the sizes and shapes that you want to use in the room.
Sound Silencer Panels:
I would only suggest this panel if you are planning to use the look of the panel and/or you want to use it as a tack-board for presentations or something. It is about half as acoustical as the other three options and about half as absorbent but it does have it’s own merits. It offers a unique aesthetic that works very well in some contemporary settings, it is tackable, and it is very impact and abuse resistant. It is only available in 2×4 panels in the Charcoal and White colors.
Again, I hope this hasn’t confused or overwhelmed you. If it has, please feel free to contact me.
Thank you,
Ted Weidman
Sales Manager
Acoustical Surfaces Inc.
123 Columbia Court N.
Chaska, MN 55318
p. 800.527.6253 (ext.25)
f. 952.448.2613
e. ted@acousticalsurfaces.com or ted@stopnoise.com
web. www.acousticalsurfaces.com
Please visit my discount site for overstock, damaged or discontinued products: www.discountsoundproofing.com
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02.04.10
Posted in Soundproofing at 9:27 am by Ted W
Hello,
I found your website and it has been very helpful.? I?m hoping you can help us select the right products to solve a bad sound problem.
We are a CPA firm, and just moved into a newly built-out office suite.? The total suite is 1700 sq. feet with 5 private offices.? We have a terrible problem in that we can all clearly hear conversations in adjoining offices.? We also have a bad echo in the offices.
Our offices have 14 foot ceilings, and the plenum above the drop down ceilings is another 6 feet.? (We are on the first floor of a five story building, and the plenum above us is used to house lots of ductwork, etc for the whole building.? The return air is vented through the ceiling lights.
The walls are standard metal studs with sheetrock and insulation within.? Our sense is that the sound problem is the ceiling.? We looked at your Plenum Barrier-Sound absorber, but our contractor is concerned that it will be too difficult to install. The plenum is 6 feet high, and full of ductwork, wiring, etc.? He says it would be a huge ?cut and paste job? and would wind up looking like a patchwork quilt.
We?ve also considered putting the Wall Panels in our offices, hoping that would absorb the sound before it has a chance to enter the plenum.
Any advice would be much appreciated!!? ? I am a CPA and not a contractor, but our contractor really seems stumped.
Thank you,
M.G.
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M.G.,
Thanks for the E-mail.? I can tell you that the problem is, in fact, the ceiling so that will be my area of focus.? The ceiling treatment won?t help the echo problem in the room but taking care of that it really quite easy so we can deal with that later.? It will probably be easiest to discuss this so please feel free to call me if you would like.
I have already talked to two people today about a problem very similar to this and have at least one other E-mail about something similar which means that I am going to draft an entry on my blog about this and publish it so others are able to get this information as well.? I do want to put this out there right now- a drop ceiling is about the worst thing to start with when you are trying to block sound.? I don?t mean to take the wind out of your sails or discourage you, but I need you to understand that for my own sanity.
Before you begin to look for options for blocking the sound, you need to find where the sound is leaking out ? or leaking out the most.? Without doing this, It would be like trying to plug a leaky fish tank without knowing where it were leaking.? This can be done quite easily with your ears, and believe it or not, your eyes.? I commonly suggest exploring this in two ways.? The first would be to wait until the office is as quiet as possible (before or after hours) and get a radio or CD player as a good, constant noise source.? Pick a song with lyrics rather than just music and put it areas in adjacent rooms.? Go into the room in question and listen.? Is it coming through the ducts, the ceiling, the cracks around the door, under the door, through the wall, etc.? Trust your ear.? The other way is to turn on the lights in every room around the room in question before going into the room and turn the lights off.? Look for light.? Where you have light leaks, you have sound leaks.? IMPORTIANT -Keep in mind, light leaks may be above the drop ceiling tiles, so take one of those out before you start.
Blocking sound is done by keeping three things in mind.? (1)Common air space, (2)mass & density and (3)hard surface contact.? These are the three ways that sound travels into or out of a room, and it works in that order.? Sound is a lot like water, so visualizing water traveling into or out of a room usually helps people understand this whole idea.? The first thing above, common air space is the FIRST path that sound uses, so this needs to be explored first.? Believe it or not, if you have a 5% air gap in any kind of a noise barrier, 90% of the sound leaks through that air space.? So, with this in mind, I would like you to explore three areas ? the air gaps around the door, the HVAC system and the common wall (which will lead into the second).
Hopefully you were able to use the light test to come up with common air gaps.? I would start there and fix those before treating EVERYTHING in the room.? Chances are that this will not only be the most cost effective part of the whole process but it may reduce it to an acceptable level.? Using my past experience and knowledge, these areas are just about always the air gaps around the door and the ceiling.? We have a few different types of DOOR SEAL KITS that can be attached to just about any door and seal up the jamb (sides and top) as well as the door bottom.? For the ceiling, you may want to look at the BARRIER-DECOUPLER which is the most cost effective approach by far but does not have a class A fire rating, our 8lb COMPOSITE ECHO ELIMINATOR which will not block quite as much sound as the barrier-decoupler but it is class A fire rated.? Both of these would be put onto the backs of the ceiling tiles that you have now.? IMPORTIANT ? Both of these options will add a lot of weight to the ceiling so you will likely need to add extra supports so that the ceiling does not fall down under the added weight.? If you are looking for replacement ceiling tiles, you may want to explore the SOUND BARREIR ACT CEILING TILES which have the mass loaded vinyl backer but are by far, the most expensive approach.? Ballpark prices (not including shipping or packing fees that may apply):
The one thing that makes this situation more difficult than most is the plenum return for the HVAC system.? This basically means that there is no way to isolate the common air spaces between the offices which has a major impact on the final result.? The only way that I have heard to help is to get an HVAC Contractor to fabricate and install ?L? shape boots for above the ceiling tiles so that the sound being pulled from the room is forces to make a right turn.? These boots are lined with our QUIET LINER which is a roll of cotton that has an antimicrobial facing on one side.? This basically acts like a car muffler forcing the sound to pass by an absorptive surface.
I have not yet talked about the walls which I can leave for future correspondence if needed.? I have helped quite a few people in the past do the best that they can with noise issues like this and always suggest treating the doors and the ceiling, and in this case, the plenum return factor and then use the offices for a week and re-assess the problem.? The idea here is that you want to plug the biggest leaks first and then step back and see what you?ve done.? It may be perfect and you can go about your business and it may need further investigation and treatment.? With that said, I always suggest that people call me back if they need additional products or if there is something that didn?t work and I very rarely hear back from people which leads me to believe that the solution worked ? or worked well enough to make them happy.? In my business, no news is good news.
I hope I?ve not totally and completely confused or overwhelmed you and hope this stuff may help a bit.? Again, if you have questions or if you would like to talk to me, please feel free to call.? If you want product samples or any additional information, also feel free to contact me.
Thank you,
Ted Weidman
Sales Manager
Acoustical Surfaces Inc.
123 Columbia Court N.
Chaska, MN? 55318
p. 800.527.6253 (ext.25)
f. 952.448.2613
e. ted@acousticalsurfaces.com or ted@stopnoise.com
web. www.acousticalsurfaces.com
Please visit my discount site for overstock, damaged or discontinued products: www.discountsoundproofing.com
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01.22.10
Posted in Soundproofing at 10:23 am by Ted W
I have been getting a lot of calls lately where people are looking to soundproof a room.? They explain to me that they want sound that is being made within the room to STAY in the room or they want to keep sound out of their space.? We commonly begin talking about the room and the type of noise that we are dealing with in each particular situation.
A LOT of people ask for pricing on “soundproofing foam”, sound absorbing foam, or sound proofing panels.? They are sure that foam is the ticket because people have seen ?egg crate? foam or other similar products as finish wall treatments in recording studios, on TV shows and in movies.? This misconception is INCREDIBLY common- so if you are reading this thinking to yourself? ?Well, self, doesn?t foam stop sound?? Isn?t foam used for soundproofing a room?? Everyone knows that, right??? unfortunately I have to tell you that you are wrong.? Foam does not stop sound ? foam absorbs echo.? Don?t feel bad.? There are lots and lots of people out there that share this idea.
There are two sides of the acoustical coin ? if you will.? There are products that absorb echo within a room and there are products that will block or stop a sound.? (There are some panels that will do both.? These are generally called composites, but if I get into that now, things will be confusing so I am going to keep it simple.)? Products that are designed and intended to ABSORB ECHO within a room are soft, light, fluffy products.? They will generally feel soft to the touch.? They are designed to soften up the surfaces that are in the room and reduce the echo within that space.? Products that are designed to BLOCK SOUND from entering or leaving a space are almost always found INSIDE the wall construction.? These products are heavy, dense, cumbersome, or designed to decouple the wall so that one side of the wall doesn?t have hard surface contact with the either.?
Here is an analogy that I came up with the other day that has helped a few people understand this whole idea.? Imagine that you have water seeping through a wall.? You would not try to block the water by putting sponges on the wall because the sponges will swell while absorbing the water but ultimately let it right through.? Now, if you covered your wall with a 4″ thick piece of glass, THAT approach would BLOCK the water from making it’s way into your room.? Acoustical panels made from things like sponges absorb while dense, heavy, air-tight glass will block.
I?m going to throw a couple ?for instances? at you here to hopefully help further my point.? Imagine for a you are finishing a room in your basement.? You have installed the studs that will frame the wall and you are to the point where you are ready for sheetrock.? Rather than sheetrock, you decide that you are going to put some 2? Thick, white ?egg crate? foam on the studs.? This foam has almost no mass and no density.? It is mostly air.? After you?ve installed the foam, you tell someone to go stand on the opposite side of the wall and you begin talking.? You will be able to hear each other as if there were no wall in front of you.?
New scenario. Same basement- same stud wall.? Rather than foam, this time, you decide that you are going to put 9 layers of 5/8? sheetrock on either side of the wall.? Nine layers on the inside, and Nine layers on the outside.? You tell your friend to go to the other side of the wall and you start talking.? I would be willing to bet that your friend would not be able to hear much of what you were saying due to the massive amount of mass that is making the wall. ?
Ok, new room.? This room is made out of concrete and is the exact same size as a racquetball ball court (20? wide by 40? long x 20? tall) and is made out of solid concrete.? The walls of this room are two-feet thick.? You clap your hands in the room and the echo seems to go on forever.? You have, in your hands 100 new super-balls of varying colors.? You throw them in every direction and they keep bouncing and bouncing everywhere through the room, and eventually they stop but it takes a few minutes.? NOW imagine that you line that same room with 2? thick foam.? You line the walls, ceiling and floor.? You throw the same 100 super-balls and they hit the wall/ceiling/floor and don?t bounce.? The energy from the ball was absorbed into the room.? A sound wave inside this room is just like that super-ball.? It is reflected off of a hard surface and absorbed by a soft one.
I know that these examples are fairly crude, but hopefully I have painted a picture that helps you understand a little more about sound proofing and sound absorbing.? I?m sure there are lots and lots of people out there that are excessively smarter than I am who are shaking their heads because I did not touch on the technical side of things explaining wavelength and frequency, but oh well.? I am trying to lay down a very simple framework that will help the average Joe?s and Mary?s of the world understand the difference between these two principles of acoustics.
Generally speaking, absorbing echo within a room is pretty easy.? Based on the surfaces that make up the room and the size or volume of that room, it is fairly easy to suggest to potential customers a few different products and a pretty safe quantity of each product that will take care of their problem.? Blocking sound, or decreasing sound transmission, however, is usually a much more difficult feat to accomplish.? There are a LOT more things that come into play and blocking sound or soundproofing a room usually is going to require some kind of construction because the stuff that is doing the work is inside of the wall assembly ? not on the surface of the sheetrock.? Of course there are some products that can block sound that are finish wall surfaces, I am making a generalization.
If you have an acoustical problem or situation that you are looking to fix, the understanding of these two ideas is going to greatly help you choose a product or products that will help reduce or eliminate the problem.? I do not want to get into product suggestions in this little write-up, I wanted to put something together that was more informational than anything else.? If you would like to talk to someone about your particular problem, here are some things to put together that will help both you, and the sales person that you talk to. ?
- Are you looking to block sound or absorb echo?
- What are the dimensions of and surfaces in your room?
- What is the room used for ? what types of sound (s) are you looking to block / absorb?a
(a high pitch-squeaky sound, voices, low frequency-bass type sound, all of the above)
- What are your ideas as to the best way to treat the room, where to put product, or how to approach the situation?
If you call with these things in mind or written down, you will be in a great spot to efficiently begin the steps necessary to take care of the problem.? As always, if you would like to talk to someone about a situation or a problem that you are looking to fix or at least help, feel free to call and ask for someone in sales.
Ted Weidman
Acoustical Surfaces Inc.
123 Columbia Court N.
Chaska, MN? 55318
p. 800.527.6253 (ext.25)
f. 952.448.2613
e.? ted@acousticalsurfaces.com
web.? www.acousticalsurfaces.com
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01.20.10
Posted in Soundproofing at 9:40 am by Ted W
Dear Ted,
My basement home theater will be constructed starting in April.? The room will be 17′x22′.? The ceilings are 12 foot.? The rooms have not yet been framed. There will be a small bathroom beside the theater and a bedroom beside the bathroom (See attachment).? Since that part of the basement is completely underground, the walls currently (i.e. before framing) are concrete. A living room, kitchen, and small office are above the part of the basement where the home theater will be. What’s the most economical way of soundproofing my new home theater?? I know that I need 1 soundproof door. What else should I add during construction?
S.W.
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S.W.,
Thank you for the E-mail.? As I?m sure you?ve found via online research, there really isn?t a set-in-stone way to answer these questions.? Sound proofing is something that has to be approached as a unique, construction and situation based situation and what may work in ?Room A? might not work in ?Room B?, there are simply too many variables.? With my disclaimer out there, I will do my best to make a few recommendations but please understand that there may be a few hundred variations that would work ? it all depends on the desired result and the budget for the project.? Before I get too into it, I do want to state that you should expect that no matter what you do, the low frequency (bass) is going to be the sound that makes it?s way upstairs.? I can explain why, but it?s importation to know that before anything else.
DUCT WORK:? Before the rooms are built, I would strongly suggest taking a look at the duct system for the room.? This is often an overlooked detail that can literally make or break the room.? You could build the most soundproof room in the world and if you leave the duct work untreated, you may as well have done nothing at all.? Sound travels via the path of least resistance and is very similar to water.? This first path of least resistance is always any and all common air spaces.? The sound being generated in the room very quickly and efficiently finds the duct register, travels into the duct and on to the rest of the house.? There are two basic ways to treat a duct ? to buy and install an in-line duct silencer which is like a big car muffler for the HVAC system or to line the duct with a soft surface like our Quiet Liner.? Lining the duct is always cheaper but may require a bit more work.? I can explain the details in greater length if you would like, but the duct usually has to be up-sized because by putting something inside you reduce the ID (internal diameter) of the duct.? I would also suggest either two 45 degree bends or one 90 degree bend so that the sound can not travel in a straight line and is FORCED to pass by an acoustical liner.
Wall/Ceiling Surfaces: After the ducts are treated, I would stuff the joist cavity with either our Quiet Liner cotton based insulation or a standard fiberglass insulation.? The insulation inside of the stud cavity is not there to be a noise barrier, it is there to absorb any echo?s that would be created by a joist area that was made of all hard surfaces.? It is very important to note that soft, fluffy insulation does not block sound- it absorbs echo.?
As far as the walls and ceiling are concerned, the best and most cost effective way to build them are with the RSIC-1 clips.? The intent and goal of the clips is really quite simple ? to stand the sheetrock off of the stud or joist.? The black rubber ?puck? of the clip is the piece that is doing all of the work.? By floating the hat/furring channel away from the stud it acts like a shock absorber and allows the sheetrock to move and vibrate very slightly turning the sound energy into heat ? by causing the vibration.? As I said before, sounds are waves of energy in the air.? When they hit a hard surface they transform into a vibration.? This clip allows the sheetrock to flex and absorb the energy (like a punching bag absorbing a punch) so that it can not travel nearly as effectively from one side of the wall to the other.? There is all kinds of information on THIS PDF that will help you.? There are a few things that you will need to know about the details of this system, so if it looks like a viable option, let me know and I can go through those things with you.
Door: Depending on the budget for your project, I would also suggest one of the Studio 3D door assemblies because if the walls are floating and the duct work has been treated, the door is the next weakest link in the room.? These doors are custom made and have quite a few options and variables.? The doors start at about $2,300.00 each not including the installation kit ($30) and shipping which depends on where you are located.? If that is completely out of your budget may want to get a good, heavy, solid core door and seal it with a door seal kit.
Floor: Treating the floor of your room is something you may want to consider but this decision usually depends on the budget for the room as well as the desired result or amount of soundproofing that you need.? Even this is a basement and I?m assuming that it?s a poured concrete floor, many home audio installers will put down our Acoustik which is a a rubber based underlament before they begin building the walls.? The reason for this is because any energy that gets into the concrete will travel under the walls and not only to the other rooms in the basement, but it will travel up the concrete walls and potentially get into the rooms above because the structure for those rooms rests on the concrete.? This is true especially for the lower frequencies.
After the room is built you will then want to do things on the walls and floor to improve the sound quality within the room and reduce the reverberation and reflections inside of the room.? I can get into the options later if you would like- I don?t want to overwhelm you as there are quite a few ways to go about this.
I hope I have not been too long winded for you, and as I said before, if you have questions or need any additional information or if you want to discuss any of these things, please feel free to contact me.? If you wouldn?t mind, I would like to add this to my blog as it may help other people in similar situations or with similar questions.? I will, of course, not include your name.
Thank you,
Ted Weidman
Sales Manager
Acoustical Surfaces Inc.
123 Columbia Court N.
Chaska, MN? 55318
p. 800.527.6253 (ext.25)
f. 952.448.2613
e. ted@acousticalsurfaces.com or ted@stopnoise.com
web. www.acousticalsurfaces.com
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Posted in Soundproofing at 9:32 am by Ted W
Hi Ted, my name is J.A. I recently moved into a 2 story apartment in Connecticut and I am having issues with the sound. It?s a newer home that has a total of 3 apartments. My bedroom and master bath is on the second floor and it shares a common wall with a mirror image apartment on the other side. I don?t have a door to my room (ill take some pictures and send to you). its just a stairway up to my bedroom and it sort of has a ?loft? feel to it (and since it?s the top floor, the ceiling has a lot of different angles). as you walk up the stairway, to your left is a common wall. Its huge and I?ll measure it when I get home tonight. Once at the top of the stairs, the entire bedroom opens up to your right.
Here?s the issue??I hear EVERYTHING that my neighbor says and does. I can hear him walk, talk and even when he flushes the toilet! Its awful. My landlord just last week installed some sort of sound barrier in the walls and put dry wall up over it. I?m also going to be buying an area rug for my room as well. But I know that wont be enough. My landlord said he will install a noise barrier in the wall in the other apartment next door as well. But to be honest, I am skeptical that?ll work. My neighbor is super nice and not loud at all. He?s having a normal conversation in a normal tone of voice and I can ever everything he says.
As an example?I have a walk in closet and its totally full of clothes, bagged comforters, shoes, etc?I even have one of those 2 tiered garment racks that are wrapped in fabric. So even will this small space full of dense materials that should absorb noise, I still heard the conversation he was having on the other side of my closet wall. I don?t know if I need to look into some sort of device that I hang on the wall?maybe one of those fabric panel looking things? I?m desperate for advice! Since my landlord doesn?t know a ton about architecture and soundproofing, etc, it would help for me to give him any sort of suggestions. I would really appreciate any advice and recommendations you may have.
Thank you!
J.A.
________________________________________
J.A.,
This sounds like a pretty sever problem and may take someone in the area who does work in soundproofing and acoustics to come have a look at it to MAKE SURE that you are taking the appropriate action and actually doing something to reduce the noise from one room to the other.? If possible, I would throw something like ?Acoustical consultant?, ?acoustical analysis? or ?Acoustical contractor? into a Google search with either your zip code or the name of a local major city.? Give the first few hits that you find a call and see if they do site visits and what they charge.? If the don?t, briefly explain the problem to them and ask if they know of anyone that can come have a look at it.? There is a chance that this may be a fairly costly approach, but it MAY give you the BEST information as to where to start.
Common wall dwellings have to meet certain codes that are set in place by either the local building code or the national building council or code.? There is a unit of measure called STC which is a rating of how ?soundproof? a wall or ceiling is.? The higher the STC number, the more soundproof.? Usually places like yours must meet an STC of around 50 to be within code.? It sounds to me like you are FAR under that, and it?s good to hear that your landlord is willing to work with you to improve it.? Your landlord should have the blueprints for the building which will show HOW the common wall was built.? I would be very interested in either seeing this or having someone tell me how this wall was constructed.? This may provide the information needed so that I am able to tell you how to proceed.
In order to understanding how to fix a problem, one must understand the problem.? Basically, sound travels via the path of least resistance from one room to the next.? The first path is any kind of common air space like a heating/cooling duct or any crack that may exist.? I would be surprised if this was the case in your situation, but it can?t hurt to look for something.? The second path that it uses is the area of the wall assembly with the least amount of mass.? An example of this would be if the drywall crew left a half-inch gap between the wall and the ceiling and filled the gap with foam or insulation before taping and mudding it.? This, again, may be fairly unlikely, but any weak link in the wall would conduct a lot of sound.
If neither of these are present and the wall has an equal amount of density through out the wall and the wall, itself, is the issue, here is how sound works.? When a sound wave hits one side of a wall it transforms into a vibration.? The vibration travels from the sheetrock ? to the stud- and into the sheetrock on the other side of the wall.? Because it does not have any other hard surfaces to travel through, it becomes an airborne sound again.? One very efficient way to stop the sound is to build two walls that don?t touch each other and are separated by an air space.? This causes the sound to change forms multiple times, and every time it changes forms it looses energy.
Unfortunately, in cases like yours there are FAR too many variables to be able to say ?Product X? will solve the problem, absolutely.? Sound proofing is something that needs to be done quite specifically in order to be successful.? This is why it is vary important to know exactly where the ?weak link? is on the front side.? With that said, I would strongly suggest at least looking at treating one side of the wall with the RSIC-1 Sound Isolation Clip.? Unfortunately this system will require completely covering the existing wall with a new layer of sheetrock and that space will loose a little bit of overall square footage which is unfortunate, but this clip system is one of the most effective ways to block sound on the market.
The clip isn?t a sheet product like a vinyl noise barrier which may have been what your landlord installed on one side of the wall already.? If this was put between two layers of sheetrock, it is very likely that it may not have made an audible difference which I can go into further if you would like?? But, the whole intent of these clips is very quite simple.? They are used to ?float? a hat channel or a furring channel off of the studs and decouple (or separate) a wall assembly pictured HERE.? It is just like building walls that don?t touch each other, but instead of buying new studs and loosing all that room, it floats the sheetrock off of the structure on one side only.? It allows the sheetrock itself to move and vibrate (very slightly) and basically turn the vibration energy into heat.
Anyway, I hope all of this makes sense and I?ve not overwhelmed you.? If you wouldn?t mind, I would like to add this to my blog as there may be a few other people who would benefit from this information.? If you wouldn?t mind, or if you have any questions or need any additional information, please feel free to contact me.
Thank you,
Ted Weidman
Sales Manager
Acoustical Surfaces Inc.
123 Columbia Court N.
Chaska, MN? 55318
p. 800.527.6253 (ext.25)
f. 952.448.2613
e. ted@acousticalsurfaces.com or ted@stopnoise.com
web. www.acousticalsurfaces.com
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01.18.10
Posted in Soundproofing at 12:54 pm by Ted W
We are looking for some help in recommending and pricing some panels that will help cut down on the echo in our Family Life Center.
This room is used for contemporary worship on Sunday morning with live bands.? The echo or “slap back” is challenging for the bands.
The panels will also need to be able to withstand the occasional basketball hit..
We actually set-up bands on the main floor in front of the stage and/or to the right of the stage.
The room is approx. 65′ wide by 100′ deep.
See attached photos.
My thoughts are to put up 8 panels across the rear wall.
Approx. dimensions for estimating;
2 panels 4′ wide x 17′high
2 panels 4′ x 11′
2 panels 4′ x 9′
2 panels 4′ x 7′
We would want something that is neutral in color and appearance to blend in with the wall.
While we are at it, perhaps panels that would allow us to hang seasonal banners over them for decoration.
I’ve volunteered to come up with a plan that will then be presented to the property management team for approval.
Your help and consideration is greatly appreciated.
Feel free to call me with any questions.
K.S.
Kevin,
Thank you for the description and pictures!? Seeing a space like this is a great help for me as I tend to be a right brained person.? I have a few things that I want to briefly explain, but if you have time, please feel free to contact me.
The first thing that I noticed was the physical volume and size of this room.? The place is massive!? I really like your idea of putting panels on the back wall (and it kind of reminds me of a cell phone commercial) ?we have the most bars in the most places??? But, the thing that throws up a bit of a red flag for me is that although this is a good start and a great design, it may not be enough overall square footage to really make a noticeable dent in the acoustics and reverberation of the room.? It?s a good starting place, and will help, but I wanted to share that before I got too far into it.
As far as treatment goes, three products came to mind ?each having their own respective advantages and disadvantages.? I will do my best to briefly explain each and if you would like, I would also be happy to get some physical product samples to you so that you could see them in person which is often a great help.
The three products that came to mind are our Echo Eliminator recycled cotton panels, the WallMate Stretch-wall fabric system and the Fabric-Wrapped-Fiberglass panels.? These three all have extremely good absorption numbers and the biggest difference is going to be the cost, the aesthetic and the panel sizes of each.
The Echo Eliminator panels are made from recycled cotton and are, by far, the most cost effective.? They can be shipped in boxes via UPS and are in stock in nine different colors.? The panels are 2?x4? and very easy to install.? The disadvantage of this option is the aesthetic as some times people do not feel that it is ?finished? looking enough.? We are limited to 2×4 panels and the standard colors.? Roughly, the 1? panels are $4.00 per square foot and the 2? panels are $5.50 per square foot (not including shipping or adhesives).
The Wall Mate system is basically a way to cover up the Echo Eliminator panels offering a more finished aesthetic.? I like to use the analogy of a canvas painting here ?where the wooden stretcher pulls the tension on the canvas? The advantages here are the use of the low-cost Echo Eliminator, the ability to make panels in sizes that are limited to the width of the fabric bolt, and the freedom to use one of hundreds of different color fabrics.? The disadvantage is that this product requires the most site labor to install as these are all put together by the end user.? There is a bit of a learning curve to get over, but once that is done it usually goes quite quickly.? This is a more difficult product to ballpark because the cost will depend on the sizes of the panels that you are building, but you would have the square foot cost of the cotton plus $2.95 per linear foot for the track, and usually $14.95 - $16.95 per linear yard for the fabric (usually in 66? wide bolts).? Again, this does not include adhesive or shipping.
The Fabric Wrapped Fiberglass panels offer the same, finished aesthetic of the WallMate system but they arrive on site as prefabricated, ready-to-install panels.? These start as 4×8 or 4×10 boards of fiberglass and one of four edges is cut onto the side (square, radius, beveled and half-beveled) before each is wrapped with a decorative fabric.? The advantage of this product is the freedom of panel size (up to 4×10) and the freedom of color of fabric used.? They are shipped ready to install, so the shipping is relatively easy.? The disadvantage of this option is usually the cost.? Because they are custom made panels, we have a good amount of labor and parts that go into their manufacturing.? Additionally, because of the weight and fragile nature of the board, they are crated in plywood and shipped on pallets, so the shipping can be costly.? Again, the price for this option will depend on the sizes and quantities of the panels along with the fabric chosen, but ballpark numbers are $7.50 per square foot for the 1? panels and $13.00 per square foot for the 2? panels.
I don?t want to get too long winded here, but I would be happy to discuss this with you further if you would like, so please feel free to contact me.? If you have any questions or need any additional information or if you would like product samples or one or all of these, please feel free to call or send me an E-mail.
Thank you,
Ted Weidman
Sales Manager
Acoustical Surfaces Inc.
123 Columbia Court N.
Chaska, MN? 55318
p. 800.527.6253 (ext.25)
f. 952.448.2613
e. ted@acousticalsurfaces.com or ted@stopnoise.com
web. www.acousticalsurfaces.com
Please visit my discount site for overstock, damaged or discontinued products: www.discountsoundproofing.com
?? Please do not print this e-mail (or attachments) unless necessary.
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09.02.09
Posted in Soundproofing at 12:26 pm by Ted W
Ted ?
I came across your name and contact info in your soundproofing blog.? I understand that you are in the Minneapolis area?I am in northern Wisconsin so maybe you can help with an issue that I have.? I have a new residence that has a large great room with a terrible acoustics / echoes.? We have a mixture of tongue and groove pine ceiling and walls, pine wood floors, a large wall of windows and some drywall.? The ceiling is a 12 / 12 pitch and is quite high.? I do not have the exact dimensions currently at hand, but the dimensions are close to 35? x 20? with the peak of the ceiling 25-30? high.? See the attached pictures.? I am trying to get rid of the extraneous sound without ruining look and feel of what I have built.? When there are a number people talking the sound can be quite annoying.? The sound coming from a TV or stereo is also quite bad.? Do you have any recommendations of what I could do?? I am thinking about baffles that hang from the ceiling or some wall panels that could go on the drywall (the brown and red walls you see in the photos).? Any photos that might have of product installations you have done would be very helpful.? Thank you in advance for your insight.
Frank
My Reply:
Frank,
Would you mind if I added a couple of these pictures as well as my reply to the Blog?? It may help people in similar situations.
Anyway, MAN, what an awesome looking place!!!? Unfortunately with all of that T&G pine, it makes for a bit of a difficult approach.? I?m not sure which article that you found, but the pictures were a huge help, so thank you for taking the time to send them.? I would LOVE to own a place like this because of the warm, cabin like feel, and the last thing I want to do is to ruin that with some acoustical treatment so I?ve got a few ideas to throw at you, feel free to shoot them down if you don?t like them.? My goal is to ?sneak? paneling into this room so that we can take the ?edge off? of the echo/reverberation without changing the look of the room at all ? or to make the treatment as inconspicuous as possible.? It might be a challenge, but here goes.
1.? I would get some 2? thick Echo Eliminator panels on top of the kitchen cabinets.? This is an extremely easy way to get some absorption into the space without changing the look of the room at all.? It?s not ideal, but it?s easy, cheap and it can?t hurt.
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2.? I noticed the exposed pine joists above the kitchen and under the landing for the 2nd level.? I would also try to get some acoustical paneling on the bottom of that area ? glued directly to the opposite side of the floor.? I would use the 2? Echo Eliminator for this as well.? It?s light, easy to cut, easy to adhere overhead (with both spray adhesive and construction adhesive), cost effective and comes in nine different colors.
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3.? If possible, get some acoustical paneling on the green or brown wall above the cabinets in the kitchen, and maybe some panels long the red/rust colored wall where the wall of the stairs meets the ceiling.? For these panels, I would use our Fabric Wrapped Fiberglass panels for a few reasons.? The main reason is the fact that they are built to your measurements and wrapped with one of a few hundred different color fabrics.?
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3.5.? Would it be possible to put some paneling under the bar stools and/or dining area table?? It?s not ideal, but it can?t hurt.? Possible product: Echo Eliminator
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3.75.? I?m not sure if you would go for the look or not, but another area that you might be able to get some absorption is the hallway side of the cabinets to the right of the fridge.? You could either do a ?tackable? fabric wrapped fiberglass panel (which we can do in white) or the Sound Silencer panels which are impact resistant as well as tackable.
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Please understand that I don?t even pretend to be an interior designer ? I leave all that stuff up to my wife.? I have, however, learned a few tricks over the years to get absorption into rooms that seemed impossible.? The thing about sound and acoustics is that in order to make a change in the way a room sounds, you have to cover up the hard and reflective surfaces in the room which means that you have to change the way they look.? If I could come up with an invisible way to absorb echo, I would retire tomorrow and become a professional fisherman.? Ideally, I would want to get some paneling onto the wooden surfaces of the angled ceiling and have you put down some nice, thick floor carpets or rugs, but that T&G pine is the room, so the last thing I want to do is to cover that.? So, the approaches that I numbered above are not ideal, but they would likely be the most inconspicuous way to get something into that room to start to eliminate the echo and if they were done and it was not enough of a change, we could explore something further.
I may have some installation photos but I don?t know if I have any that are similar enough to this to be a huge help.? Let me know what you think of the stuff above and it will help me narrow down the photos to send to you.
Thank you!
Ted Weidman
Sales Manager
Acoustical Surfaces Inc.
123 Columbia Court N.
Chaska, MN? 55318
p. 800.527.6253 (ext.25)
f. 952.448.2613
e. ted@acousticalsurfaces.com
web. www.acousticalsurfaces.com
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05.26.09
Posted in Soundproofing, Noise Control, Bands / Live Music, "SOUND-PROOFING" a room, Sound Quality Improvement/ Echo reduction, Industrial at 11:40 am by Ted W
Hi Ted-
Thanks for taking the time to post the blog. I enjoyed the posts so far and hope to enjoy more.
I have a particular sound issue that I hope you can help me with. I need to dampen the noise in a bar in New York City. The ceilings are 18′ high, but the floors are wood and tile, the ceilings are tin, and the walls are mostly brick. The space itself if roughly 1200 sf; right now, if more than ten people are in the room, it sound like a big speaker.
My idea thus far is to add panels–either on or perpindicular to–the ceiling to both keep the noise from my upstairs neighbor (important!) and to generally reduce the echo in the room. I’m also adding soft surfaces wherever possible (ie cloth or sound-absorbing material on the walls/windows), and looking to reduce the noise of the a/c to keep it from making people speak over it.
If you have any thoughts, I would love to hear them.
Thanks,
Michael
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Michael,
Thank you for the E-mail and the comments about the blog stuff. 
? I?m not sure exactly which articles that you found and read but I want to make sure that we start on the same page so we don?t get confused.? You mention that you want to control sound within the bar AS WELL AS blocking it from making it?s way upstairs.? These are two COMPLETELY different things.? Eliminating the echo and reverberation is going to be really quite easy, but blocking the sound is always a lot more involved and will require altering the floor/ceiling assembly.? Please keep in mind that the low frequencies / bass frequencies are likely going to make it upstairs much more than the mid and high frequencies no matter what you do.
So, with that said, let?s talk about blocking the sound first.? Please keep in mind that blocking sound can be tricky and in order to do this successfully it needs to be done correctly.? This is always a slippery slope because one very small leak can shoot the whole assembly in the foot.? The most effective way to keep the sound out is to rip out the floor of the upstairs neighbor and put down some kind of underlament.? I realize that this is just about always impossible, but I feel it?s important to note.? For treating the ceiling of your bar, I would suggest at least looking at the RSIC-1 clip system.? This system is designed to ?float? a new sheetrock ceiling so that the ceiling is suspended by rubber and not ?touching? the structure above.? The cliff notes for the installation are: locate the joists, screw the clips into the joists, run a hat channel / furring channel perpendicular to the joists and screw the new layer of sheetrock to the channel.? After the ceiling is in place, use an acoustical sealant and seal up the 1/8-1/4? airspace that you left between the new sheetrock ceiling and the walls, tape, mud and paint.
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Treating the echo and reverberation within the bar is MUCH easier to do and I would be happy to put a couple of quotes together and send you some product samples if you would like.? Although I don?t even pretend to be an interior designer, a lot of times a few digital pictures of the space are a great help for me to make a few product suggestions so if you have the ability to send a few, that would be great.? Without knowing too much about the room, my first two suggestions are the Echo Eliminator panels and the Fabric Wrapped Fiberglass panels. These two options are going to have their respective advantages and disadvantages and I will do my best to quickly go thru them.? Performance wise, these will both do the same job- and both are very absorptive.? The Echo Eliminator panels are made from recycled cotton fiber and are probably some of the most cost effective, Class A panels on the market.? They are in stock in 2?x4? panels and are usually shipped out in boxes via UPS ground.? They easily adhere directly to the walls or the ceiling and are very easy to install.? We have nine different colors to choose from.? The disadvantage of the panels is that they are not the most decorative or aesthetically pleasing of the panels we can supply.? The look kind of like a 1? thick piece of felt.? With that said, considering you have 18? ceilings, I would HIGHLY doubt that anyone would be able to tell that they weren?t ?decorative? panels if they were installed on the ceiling.
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The Fabric Wrapped Fiberglass panels are all custom made so we can make whatever size and color panels you want.? The biggest piece of fiberglass that we can get is 4? x 10?, so that is the limitation on the size.? We use acoustically invisible fabric so that the sound makes it into the fiberglass behind it.? These are probably the most finished looking and aesthetically pleasing option that we have but considering they are all custom built (by hand) they are also some of the most expensive.? Also, because of the size, fragile nature, and the weight, they have to be shipped in plywood crates on the back of a semi-truck which is clearly more expensive than UPS.? In order to price these, I would need to know the size and quantity of the panes that you wanted because different amounts of labor and scrap generated by the sizes will affect the price.
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As far as thickness goes, I would probably suggest the 1? thick panels to get the most absorption for the dollar.? If you have a significant amount of bass/low frequencies in the bar, the 2? would be a good option but this choice depends on the types of sounds that you are looking to absorb.? Please keep in mind that absorption and blocking are two completely different things.? To help people visualize this, I like to use the example of two fish tanks.? For the first fish tank, you construct the walls made out of sponges.? For the second fish tank you construct the walls out of glass.? If you fill them both, what happens?? The sponges absorb the water, but let it right thru.? The glass doesn?t absorb any water but blocks it.? The same thing happens with sound.? Soft, light, fluffy surfaces (cotton, fiberglass, foam) absorb sound but do not block it.? Air tight barriers like sheetrock or vinyl or concrete have a significant amount of mass and no air leaks so they do a decent job at blocking the sound but do not absorb it.? Clearly it?s more complicated than that but hopefully you get the idea.
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If you would like to talk about this or correspond in greater detail, please feel free to call or E-mail me.? Pictures of the bar along with the address would be awesome!? I would be happy to put some product samples and literature into a box and send them to you so you could physically see this stuff.? If we end up taking care of the problem for you, and I?m ever in New York, I will definitely have to swing in and have a couple of beers and check it out.?
Ted Weidman
Acoustical Surfaces Inc.
123 Columbia Court N.
Chaska, MN? 55318
p. 800.527.6253 (ext.25)
f. 952.448.2613
e. ted@acousticalsurfaces.com
web. www.acousticalsurfaces.com
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05.07.09
Posted in Soundproofing, Noise Control, "SOUND-PROOFING" a room, Sound Quality Improvement/ Echo reduction at 9:07 am by Ted W
So, I?m sitting at my desk one day happily making my way thru my afternoon at the office when in comes an E-mail from a really good friend of mine on the west coast? ?Hey - I need some acoustical work done!? We built a new addition to our Bike Shop and it’s all rattle-y and echo-y in there.? Can you charge me an exorbitant amount to fix my problem, please?? What info would you need from me to get moving?? Or, do I need to find someone local?? Shakka, Bra.? He says.? In my reply I asked him for the measurements of the space along with a few photos which would help me better understand the room that he was dealing with.? He sent them along with ?Attached is my totally awesome diagram of room dimensions and a couple pictures.? Let me know if you need more pictures or of different details.? Essentially, the room is a trapezoid - a square with one edge that goes out diagonal to elongate the store front on one end.? It has 14.5 ft tall ceilings.? Let me know what else you need?? Thanks!?
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After a few more E-mails back and forth, I have a pretty good idea of the sound problem he is trying to fix.? I?ve seen this before.? Many retail locations built recently take advantage of the industrial look of an exposed concrete floor and an exposed metal roof deck.? It?s a raw, hip look but the unfortunate result is awful acoustics and a terrible echo.? If any kind of background music is being played or any work is done that generates much noise at all, the sound pressure VERY quickly fills the space and creates an uncomfortable work environment.
After putting together a box of potential product samples and literature, store manager Leif took over as my point of contact for the project.? Leif asked many good questions about the relative difference between products, cost, colors, location, type of installation and mounting type.? The owner of the bike shop wanted to get the panels installed near the ceiling of the shop and had a few different ideas about exactly how that was going to be done. ?? I actually met with our owner yesterday and, as we speak, am investigating some ways to hang the soundproofing.? He doesn?t want to glue it to the ceiling but we?re looking affixing it to a rigid board. We?d hang? it between the steel beams where it would have been glued anyway but just below the ceiling itself.? If the new cost of some extra materials clears we should be getting things rolling ?pretty soon.? We wouldn?t need the spray adhesive as we?d glue all the pieces to panels on the ground prior to hanging.? Have you ever seen something like this done??? and ?Hey Ted, I know you?re a busy man.? Thanks for the samples I have a few last minute questions and would like to get some sound damping on the way. 1. How much does it add to the cost to have you install grommets? I assume it?s per grommet.? Can we get up to 4 installed or was it just two or three.? 2. Is there a significant difference in sound damping characteristics between the one and two inch material? Is the main reason for 2 the installation method? 3. Is it still realistic to be able to have these here by mid feb?? We have a women?s night, as I mentioned on the phone, that we are REALLY hoping to have them up for.? I?ll get back to you tomorrow on a finalized color choice. Thanks again Ted for your time and consideration,?
One very important factor that I always bring up when a baffle installation is considered is the fire suppression sprinkler system in the room.? If the baffles are installed in a location where they are going to inhibit the throw and coverage of the sprinklers, not only is that type of installation not safe for the potential occupants of the room, the fire marshal would likely require removal and relocation of the panels.? I made this very clear and it was decided that grommets would be installed along the 4? side of each panel on site with tools that are available at the local hardware store.? The final product choice was our 1? thick, Burgundy Echo Eliminator panels which are made from recycled cotton fiber.? A few important factors that made this a good choice were the economical cost for the product, the high acoustical absorption of the panels,? the availability of nine different colors, and the fact that the panels were in stock.? The bike shop was hosting a woman?s night and the goal was to have the panels installed for the event.? A few days after I shipped the panels I received the following E-mail:
?Hello all, I?m pleased to announce that we have installed the echo reducing material as planned in our North Pro Room.? With some hard work and a lot of hours we were able to get the whole room accomplished in ONE DAY! I had great volunteer help from Lance, Gavin, and Andreas and used our orange ?scaffolding? a tall ladder and a pre-planned attack to make it happen pretty efficiently.? Attached are some pictures.? The echo has been eliminated and the sound quality during normal conversation is remarkably improved.? The material adds a nice look and a new dimension to the room.? ?Leif?
If you have any questions or need any information about any of the products or applications discussed in this article, please feel free to contact me.? I would be happy to do my best to help you.? Ted Weidman, Acoustical Surfaces, Inc.? 123 Columbia Court North, Suite 100 Chaska, MN 55375? p. 800.527.6253 f. 952.448.5300 or e. ted@acousticalsurfaces.com
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04.17.09
Posted in Soundproofing, Noise Control, "SOUND-PROOFING" a room, Sound Quality Improvement/ Echo reduction, Churches / Houses of Worship at 10:01 am by Ted W
Hello,
I am a systems integrator in Volusia County, Florida and would like a quote from you with regards to treating a space I\’ve been asked to fix.
It always amazes me when people spend the money to build a room without any regard to the acoustical consequences.
This is one such room.
This room is approx 60 feet long by 40 ft wide and the side walls go to 23 ft with a pitch up to the center ceiling of 24 ft. The reverb decay time is roughly close to 10 seconds and speech is indistinguishable. The floor is concrete. the ceiling is dry wall and the walls are block concrete.
This room will be used for overflow congregation from the church and also serve as a gym which will be outfitted with basketball hoops on each end.
The first thought in ways to reduce the reverb time would be to treat the wall surfaces with acoustical carpet glued directly to the wall.Secondly deploying acoustical clouds hanging from the ceiling to address floor to ceiling echos.
An alternate consideration would be to line the wall surfaces with 1 inch hard fiberglass (Owens Corning 703) covered with fabric backed with luan or a thin sheet of plywood for rigidity. These panels (4 x 8 ft) would be installed on the walls, possibly starting up at around 7 ft to the ceiling. This alternative would most likely prove costlier than the initial approach.
Please share your insight as to how you’d treat this situation.
Thanks,
J.G.
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J.G.,
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Thank you for the E-mail.? Wow, that room looks like it was designed to BE an echo chamber!? 
? Isn?t it amazing that these rooms are built and then the acoustics are considered.? For this one, I?ve got a very straight forward approach that has worked in every instance where it was used.
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I?ve been asked ?How many panels do I need? enough times that I figured that there had to be a relationship between the size/volume of a room an the number of panels that made people comfortable in that room because in a gym or a swimming pool one might need a few hundred panels but in an office or a classroom one might need only a handful.
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Here is the equation:
Cubic volume x 3% = square footage of panels
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So, for this room:
60 x 40 x 23.5 (average ceiling height) = 56,400
56,400 x 0.03 = 1,692
This room needs ~1,690 square feet of panels.
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I would probably start by installing some kind of acoustical panel onto the ceiling of the room.? I really like the ceiling for rooms like this because if they are used as a gym, by the time a basketball gets up there it has probably slowed down pretty considerably.? Also, the panels might tend to be a little bit less distracting on the ceiling than they would on the walls.? This, however, is just my opinion and the panels can actually be installed anywhere in the room and have the same affect on the space.? If the church feels like the walls are a better choice, the acoustical result will be just about identical.? For this type of room, we are just looking to ?take the edge off? so the exact location is not critical.? The square footage is the thing that should be considered the most.
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Another thing that I run into all the time for projects like this is that the budget to fix the problem is quite lean, and understandably so.? Building is expensive.? I usually send out three product samples for churches in situations like this to consider.? They include:
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Echo Eliminator
Sound Silencer
Fabric Wrapped Fiberglass panels
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Before getting too involved in the details, in just about every installation, the Echo Eliminator panels are the panels that people end up purchasing for a few reasons.? First is the cost.? These are some of the most cost effective, Class A rated acoustical panels on the market.? They are also some of the most absorbent.? They are not the most aesthetically pleasing panels in the world, nor are they the most abuse resistant, but if they are put on the ceiling or high up on the walls, you are so far away from them when you?re standing on the ground, that you are not likely to notice anyway.? Now, when you?re holding them in your hand it?s another story, but people don?t usually consider that they will be mounted at a pretty significant distance.
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The Sound Silencer panels are much more impact resistant, but are twice the cost and half as acoustical.? The Fabric Wrapped Fiberglass panels are MUCH more decorative looking and just as absorbent, but they are probably three or four times the cost as the Echo Eliminator panels.? Most people who are sitting in a church board meeting looking at samples REALLY want to go with the Fabric Wrapped Fiberglass option, but when they compare the quotes, it?s usually not in the budget.
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If you wouldn?t mind, I would like to add this to my blog to hopefully help people in a similar situation.? It would really help if I could include one of the pictures of the inside of the room, but it?s not totally necessary.? If you would be ok with that, please let me know, but don?t feel any pressure.
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If you have questions or if you want me to put together any product samples, literature, or if you would like a quote, please feel free to contact me.
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Thank you,
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Ted Weidman
Acoustical Surfaces Inc.
123 Columbia Court N.
Chaska, MN? 55318
p. 800.527.6253 (ext.25)
f. 952.448.2613
e. ted@acousticalsurfaces.com
web. www.acousticalsurfaces.com
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